Home > Podcast > AVRant #148: Beating on Beats

AVRant #148: Beating on Beats

October 8th, 2009

Dina’s having a girls only week so apparently that doesn’t include AV. Yes, the logic escapes us too. Mark is this weeks guest host and he has a lot to say about Def Tech (let the hate mail begin). Leif has a question about diffusion which leads into a question from Rob about affordable absorption. Tom has a few choice words for Sony, Gelato, and Comcast. He also has a theory on why Toshiba doesn’t seem to care that their displays are so thick. Tom was on the HT Guys this week – check it out. If you are looking for a link to the Podcast Awards, we suggest us for Tech and either one of the two on the top. Make sure you support all your other favorite podcasts as well. Thanks for listening and don’t forget to vote for us at Podcast Alley.

Check that one off the bucket list

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  1. David
    October 8th, 2009 at 21:03 | #1

    Hey Tom,
    I actually have 3 cell phones in my house that have infrared. The Ericsson T68, aka Sony Ericsson T68i, the Samsung SGH-V200 and the Sony Ericsson T610. All of them have blutooth as well, but when I got the T68 blutooth connectivity wasn’t much of an option.

    And in case anyone is wondering, I do use them occasionally.

  2. Rob
    October 9th, 2009 at 02:00 | #2

    Alright! Always love to hear the guest host episodes. Nice job, Mark!

    You won’t be getting any hate mail from me over your comments about Definitive Technology’s bipolar speakers. My experience with Def Tech speakers is actually what convinced me that I had to find better resources than home theater print magazines whose reviews were strikingly similar to the full page ads that literally ran directly beside the reviews :p

    My very first surround sound system was an RCA home theater in a box that got a good score from Consumer Reports. It had a LOT of short-comings :p

    When the GameCube was first launching, I decided that I wanted a much better surround sound system; in particular, one that could perform Dolby Pro Logic II processing. I read a few reviews, but mostly just went by what was available at the local big box stores. I ended up with Polk speakers because, compared to everything else at the big box store, they seemed to be the only well made speakers that didn’t sound completely hollow when you knocked on the side of them! And I ended up with a Kenwood receiver because it was the cheapest one that had DPL II.

    That system was certainly a step up from the RCA HTiB. But it had many short-comings.

    After that experience, I really started to read a lot of magazine reviews. Definitive Technology and Bose were everywhere. Both brands were always getting praise and I pretty much believed the hype.

    One day, while browsing for DVDs at a big box store, I couldn’t help but be distracted by the TERRIBLE sound quality of the overhead sound system that was blasting music into the DVD/CD area. I looked up, and there were some Bose speakers bleating out their awfulness. I thought to myself, “how can that be? I thought Bose were supposed to be the best.”

    Oh…how young and naive :p

    Even with my preconceptions of Bose shattered, I still wanted to hear some Def Tech bipolar speakers. The reviews I had read made them sound magical and I thought they would surely replace my Polk speakers and turn my surround sound system into Nirvana.

    I located a dealer a ways out of town and drove out there for an audition. What followed was my big “wake up call” and the realization that reviews and ads needed to be greeted with skepticism rather than wide-eyed enthusiasm.

    The wide soundstage that was promised in those Def Tech reviews was certainly present. So wide, in fact, that the sound was indistinct, muddy and not at all realistic. My Polk speakers, which were nothing great, were much, MUCH better speakers and didn’t cost nearly as much.

    That’s when things really turned around for me and I decided that I simply had to hear things for myself and talk about surround sound with people who had a passion for the subject, but weren’t in it just to try and sell me something.

    During that journey, I came across Audioholics and came to respect their reviews because the language and descriptions really jibed with my own listening experiences and they lacked the hyperbole that is so prevalent in most other reviews.

    I had already learned about Axiom Audio from forums and a few other reviews, but Audioholics reviews and speaker shootouts were enough to get me to order a set and test out if they were the real deal or just another case of the reviews parroting the advertising.

    Thankfully, Axiom’s speakers were not at all like Bose or Def Tech. No hyperbole was needed; no promises of magic or descriptions that, in hind sight, really made no sense. These were simply good speakers and you didn’t need “golden ears” to hear it or weeks of “break in” to trick your brain into believing the hype.

    All of that led me to wanting to help out other people whenever I could so that they could avoid wasting as much money as I had and, instead, simply buying good surround sound setups in the first place!

    So, Mark, I know exactly where you’re coming from. I thought I wanted Def Tech too, but, just like you, I discovered that they are not all they’re cracked up to be!

  3. October 9th, 2009 at 10:37 | #3

    David – I swear, I’ve never heard of that. That’s pretty cool but I doubt it will take off universally.

  4. October 9th, 2009 at 14:55 | #4

    Well since most receivers now have ethernet, as long as they are on your LAN you could completely control the entire device from any phone over wifi.
    It would make the remote control almost obsolete if the interface was designed properly. There is no reason could not replace a system like Crestron. Why have something mounted on a wall or separate remote remote just for AV when you could have it on a phone you basically sleep with anyway? Not talking about iphone either. Almost any modern phone OS and hardware now is more powerful that Pentium 2 and 3 PCs from 10 years ago. Should be a priority from device makers if you ask me.

  5. October 9th, 2009 at 15:03 | #5

    Rob,
    I demo’d a lot of speakers in store before I chose the definitives. I think I settled on them because I wanted them more than how they sounded. In the show rooms they were not bad. But as we all the speaker is only as good as your room and the setup. The BPx surrounds in all fairness are ok. My old man has the QS8 Axioms and I cannot really tell much of a difference in sound stage or realism. But arguing surround speakers is like arguing over which Gyro place has a been hot dog, comes down to taste.

    To replace the definative I want to try either the Axiom M80, Salk HT2-TL or the RBH 1266 SER.

    And with the price of those just doing a demo of each will cost $800 just in shipping. So when I mentioned the pain of internet shopping thats reality of it. Demoing adds on additional costs.

  6. chrisgwd
    October 9th, 2009 at 17:45 | #6

    dezoris,

    You might also ask the speaker maker about local demos. The Salks, at least may have an owner in your area willing to let you have a listen. I purchased speakers similar to the Salks from another manufacturer that offered this. It seems that you can get much better value from those internet companies with small advert budgets.

  7. David
    October 10th, 2009 at 09:27 | #7

    Tom,
    It is actually a dying feature. It was much more popular feature in the early days of the PDA as means to of transmitting data wirelessly. As cell phones started adding PDA functionality, the IR port was added. Then came bluetooth, and the IR port quickly died off.

  8. October 12th, 2009 at 14:11 | #8

    MARK!?!?! Holy cow, dude. Hulu is incredible for this one reaosn alone: For people trying to save money and cut back, Hulu + HDTV antenna frequently (not always) can save people over $100/month. It’s incredible and the welath of content is amazing.

    Now, with that said, I’d love to see them add surround sound (not sure how) but even with Stereo it’s an amazing resource for those of us who don’t mind getting our Surround fixes from Netflix DVDs and watching our TV in stereo.

    If the CableTV companies went out of business and were reborn online and a la carte or via set top box I wouldn’t exactly shed a tear…

  9. AustinM
    October 12th, 2009 at 17:30 | #9

    I guarantee you the pricing models on Xbox Live and Playstation are forced on those companies by the studios.

  10. Rob
    October 12th, 2009 at 19:27 | #10

    Wait a second…hold the phone. Clint. You would actually want to watch TV programmes on your 92″ screen with your RBH SI-6100 speakers using Hulu quality?!

    Dude, you spent, like, a year’s net pay on your home theatre and now you’re worried about paying the cable bill?

    Hulu’s fine for catching up on a missed episode when there is no other choice. But as a replacement for cable? That’s crazy talk, my man.

  11. Leif
    October 13th, 2009 at 22:34 | #11

    Podcast or radio… doesn’t matter. It’s still cool to hear your name on air! My wife and I both got a kick out of that so thanks for taking my questions, Tom!!!

    I know I have a lot to do with treatments in my room to tame some of this echo that lives in the primary seating position. I actually relistened to your podcast with Gavin at Auralex and will be giving them a call to do the room analysis and see what their recommendations are moving forward.

    To put my spin on the hulu thing, we stopped DVR’ing most programs and watch them on Hulu in bed on my laptop. It’s not the best setup but when you’re in bed and probably going to fall asleep, it doesn’t matter. Convenience > quality for viewing like that. I’m just not sure I want to watch Parks and Recreation on the 120″ upstairs in full surround even though it comes this way through our FIOS line. I leave the big room for watching movies and games and then quality goes out the window on everything else that comes on TV. When you’re in a crunch to just watch something you can be pretty forgiving of the quality.

    There are shows that I will watch upstairs but will usually wait for the BD release of it to get the full effect (through Netflix of course) such as Lost and CSI Vegas (some gorgeous photography in both shows).

  12. October 14th, 2009 at 08:58 | #12

    I don’t know about your cable… but mine was nothing to write home about. DVD and Blu-ray are where I expect quality. Now I will LOVE it when Netflix gets 5.1… but until then I’m all for ditchin’ cableTV.

    To each his own, though. I don’t value high quality audio in television. The format isn’t typically set up for it. Most everything is just dialogue (with what I watch) and audio special effects are few and far between. Movies deliver the stuff I crave in surround. Maybe I’m weird.

  13. David
    October 14th, 2009 at 18:54 | #13

    Clint. I’ve found that audio quality in tv is hit or miss. Some networks put out really good sound tracks that really add to the show. I first noticed it with the opening and ending music in some of the hbo series. The CW also tends to emphasize music during the show, that is very rich and enveloping.

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